Why don't all the electrons orbiting a nucleus get sucked in ?
i can't understand, if they're negative and the nucleus is positive, why don't they just move closer to each other until they are one whole ? It's the 'mini solar system' analogy i can't understand, as i thought eventually all the planets will be attracted by the sun, it just takes a little time.
Also, how can all the protons be forced together into the nucleus and be made to stay there? Shouldn't they repel each other ? Wouldn't they prefer to be a) away from the other protons and b) closer to the electrons. resulting in a big lump, not the little planetary systems i see in books.
Answers:
OK, The "mini-solar-system" analogy is wrong. It is just a simple model to help physicists and chemists at college level get a handle on what is going on and understand reactions and charges. The actual model of an atom is a cluster of atoms (the nucleus) that is surrounded by a shell of energy that is constantly in balance. These energy "shells" are a product of the atom itself - giving the whole a degree of stability and keeping the individual atoms apart (negative to negative charges repel). Please remember that the forces acting at the atomic level are not the same as those acting on the sun and the planets, there is no such thing as gravity at this level, instead there are the weak and strong atomic forces, these hold the nucleus together and keep the electrons away from the nucleus (in the simplest of terms). Read about the interactions of these forces at the quantum level in the link I've provided. Welcome to a huge tiny world.
it is not a mini solar sytem such as in the books it may orbit but they are constantly banging into each other therefore creating the energy the holds it all together
the reason is that the electrons are repelling all other electrons.
For a start try looking in wikipedia for 'strong force' & 'weak force'
It'll tell you much more than I can be bothered to type ;)
What we have to understand, first of all is that in textbooks they use the 'small solar system' just for ease in explanation, at one time it was the accepted model, but it is outdated. Now we hear of orbiting shells, the s-shell(which is just a sphere), the p-shell(the orthogonal dumbell shaped orbitals), the d-shell(four 4-leaf clover in the xy, xz, yz,x2-y2 plane,and a donut and perpindiculat dumbell around the nucleus),and the f-shell(i'm not sure of their shape). The electrons orbit in those specified regions. It is also imperative to understand that, like light-electrons can behave as particles and as waves.
Why do the protons not repel each other? I'm not going to be able to explain properly, but basically quantam physics states that the protons and neutrons are constanly in a state of flux, protons change into neutrons, andneutrons int protons-their configuration of quarks and quanta do not differ too much. Sorry I can't be of anymore help.
These are good questions. In fact classical physics cannot explain why! We have to turn to the concepts and models developed in quantum physics. I will leave it there because I guess you have not covered QP in your studies to date.
Planets don't get pulled closer to the sun. The only way they do is if they lose some of their velocity somehow, but there is no friction in space to slow us down.
Have you seen those cool charity boxes where you stick a penny in and it swirls around the inside of a cone for ages, orbiting in circles until it eventually falls in? It only falls in due to friction reducing the speed of the coin. If you remove friction, the coin would travel in a circle forever and never fall in even though it is being pulled into the centre by gravity. Orbits in space follow the same principle.
I Have no idea about the protons question though. We need a chemist or particle physicist.
I cant answer your question completely. But some part of it.
The force of attraction between the electrons and the nucleus is balanced out by the centrifugal force.
As for your other point regarding protons in the nucleus, the protons re not alone in the nucleus, the nucleus also consists of neutrons, the protons and neutrons are held together by the strong nuclear force.
There are strong forces holding the nucleus together, called the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces. The Weak Nuclear Force is responsible for radioactive decay.
The electrons don't fall in to the nucleus for the same reason, planets don't fall into the Sun -- they have energy keeping them in orbit.
Quantum mechanics only allows electrons to have certain energies this corresponds to various distances from the nucleus (orbitals). So electrons cannot lose all their energy and fall into the nucleus as classical physics would predict its just not allowed qunantum mechanically.
As for the nucleus its clear that it does stay together so there must be a force acting that is staronger than the electrostatic repulsion - lets call it "the strong nuclear force".
the electrons have sufficient energy to be able to overcome the attraction into the nucleus. planets orbit in a similar way. they are moving fast enough that they are trying to escape the sun's gravity with the same force as the sun's gravity is pulling it.
one of the fundamental forces in the universe is what hold the protons in the nucleus together, (i thinks its called strong force)
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Also, how can all the protons be forced together into the nucleus and be made to stay there? Shouldn't they repel each other ? Wouldn't they prefer to be a) away from the other protons and b) closer to the electrons. resulting in a big lump, not the little planetary systems i see in books.
Answers:
OK, The "mini-solar-system" analogy is wrong. It is just a simple model to help physicists and chemists at college level get a handle on what is going on and understand reactions and charges. The actual model of an atom is a cluster of atoms (the nucleus) that is surrounded by a shell of energy that is constantly in balance. These energy "shells" are a product of the atom itself - giving the whole a degree of stability and keeping the individual atoms apart (negative to negative charges repel). Please remember that the forces acting at the atomic level are not the same as those acting on the sun and the planets, there is no such thing as gravity at this level, instead there are the weak and strong atomic forces, these hold the nucleus together and keep the electrons away from the nucleus (in the simplest of terms). Read about the interactions of these forces at the quantum level in the link I've provided. Welcome to a huge tiny world.
it is not a mini solar sytem such as in the books it may orbit but they are constantly banging into each other therefore creating the energy the holds it all together
the reason is that the electrons are repelling all other electrons.
For a start try looking in wikipedia for 'strong force' & 'weak force'
It'll tell you much more than I can be bothered to type ;)
What we have to understand, first of all is that in textbooks they use the 'small solar system' just for ease in explanation, at one time it was the accepted model, but it is outdated. Now we hear of orbiting shells, the s-shell(which is just a sphere), the p-shell(the orthogonal dumbell shaped orbitals), the d-shell(four 4-leaf clover in the xy, xz, yz,x2-y2 plane,and a donut and perpindiculat dumbell around the nucleus),and the f-shell(i'm not sure of their shape). The electrons orbit in those specified regions. It is also imperative to understand that, like light-electrons can behave as particles and as waves.
Why do the protons not repel each other? I'm not going to be able to explain properly, but basically quantam physics states that the protons and neutrons are constanly in a state of flux, protons change into neutrons, andneutrons int protons-their configuration of quarks and quanta do not differ too much. Sorry I can't be of anymore help.
These are good questions. In fact classical physics cannot explain why! We have to turn to the concepts and models developed in quantum physics. I will leave it there because I guess you have not covered QP in your studies to date.
Planets don't get pulled closer to the sun. The only way they do is if they lose some of their velocity somehow, but there is no friction in space to slow us down.
Have you seen those cool charity boxes where you stick a penny in and it swirls around the inside of a cone for ages, orbiting in circles until it eventually falls in? It only falls in due to friction reducing the speed of the coin. If you remove friction, the coin would travel in a circle forever and never fall in even though it is being pulled into the centre by gravity. Orbits in space follow the same principle.
I Have no idea about the protons question though. We need a chemist or particle physicist.
I cant answer your question completely. But some part of it.
The force of attraction between the electrons and the nucleus is balanced out by the centrifugal force.
As for your other point regarding protons in the nucleus, the protons re not alone in the nucleus, the nucleus also consists of neutrons, the protons and neutrons are held together by the strong nuclear force.
There are strong forces holding the nucleus together, called the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces. The Weak Nuclear Force is responsible for radioactive decay.
The electrons don't fall in to the nucleus for the same reason, planets don't fall into the Sun -- they have energy keeping them in orbit.
Quantum mechanics only allows electrons to have certain energies this corresponds to various distances from the nucleus (orbitals). So electrons cannot lose all their energy and fall into the nucleus as classical physics would predict its just not allowed qunantum mechanically.
As for the nucleus its clear that it does stay together so there must be a force acting that is staronger than the electrostatic repulsion - lets call it "the strong nuclear force".
the electrons have sufficient energy to be able to overcome the attraction into the nucleus. planets orbit in a similar way. they are moving fast enough that they are trying to escape the sun's gravity with the same force as the sun's gravity is pulling it.
one of the fundamental forces in the universe is what hold the protons in the nucleus together, (i thinks its called strong force)
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